Lexa C

“Changing History” of course. And basically what Catbus posted above.

Although I’d also add this

JAJediMaster said:

This is a thread that I wish to discuss, because it’s been a thing of contention since, well, since the Special Editions came out since 1997. The Special Editions are changes that series creator George Lucas made to change the films & to make them as consistent as possible to the upcoming prequel trilogy.

Partially, perhaps. Yet also this, direct from George himself:

On the surface, I actually don’t mind the idea of changing, or touching up a work of art. It’s natural to feel embarrassed over a work of art you did in the past that you want to improve on, & felt the limitations at the time held back one’s vision.

George himself once thought very differently, and emphatically stated so, before the Special Editions:

Also, all of the following quotes are from George Lucas, taken from his speech to the US Congress in 1988, on the >subject of altering films…
 

“American works of art belong to the American public; they are part of our cultural history.”

…

“The public’s interest is ultimately dominant over all other interests.”

…

“It will soon be possible to create a new ‘original’ negative with whatever changes or alterations the copyright holder of the moment desires.”

…

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.”

…

“People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians.”

…

“Attention should be paid to the interest of those who are yet unborn, who should be able to see this generation as it saw itself, and the past generation as it saw itself.”

 
An article with the full speech by George Lucas, at Force Material: ‘George Lucas explains why you shouldn’t digitally alter films’

And there is nothing to be “embarrassed” about with the achievements and raising of the bar that so many talented creative talents strived for and surpassed with making the Original Trilogy. Truly ‘pioneering, ground-breaking, landmark film history’ as is it often described.

A product of its time, as all films are. And not to be erased from history as George wishes it to be:

That said, I’m of the opinion that these versions should exist with the original theatrical releases kept also. Changes are also made to the prequels too, with different additions to the films.

I’m of the opinion that these changes should exist, but not at the cost of not distributing the very foundation as to why people enjoyed the films back in the day.

Absolutely! Why would anyone want to suppress or erase film history?

Give everyone the choice to buy or experience any and all of the many differing cuts that have been released to the public over the years. All in the best quality possible, on a modern digital format. Not just the OT, but also the PT.

At the end of the day, the idea of the unaltered versions being released officially isn’t happening. 1-6 are George’s work. Despite the changes, it doesn’t affect my enjoyment of the film that much, more so nitpicks. I can still enjoy the first six films fine with the new releases(except Clones). Regardless of my feelings or criticisms, I still hold George with high regard, & his storytelling is still timeless.

No. Sorry, I’ll have to respectfully disagree and correct you with that. Kershner directed Empire Strikes Back, and Marquand directed Return Of The Jedi. So 1-6 are definitely not all George’s work, and they weren’t his to alter, as George admits here:

From Category 39 of the ‘George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…’ thread:
 

An abridged screenshot from JW Rinzler’s ‘The Making Of Episode III’ book; a quoted conversation between Frank Oz and George Lucas…

^ George Lucas: “Seriously, that’s why I’m a member of the Film Foundation (filmmakers for film preservation). A director should be able to change his films - but nobody else.”

At the time of above conversation George Lucas had already made changes to directors Irvin Kershner’s ‘Empire Strikes Back’, and Richard Marquand’s ‘Return Of The Jedi’ - and would also make go on to make further additional changes to both films.
 

Neither the Empire Strikes Back or Return Of The Jedi are available as their respective directors intended, or indeed made, on a modern and quality digital format.

At least the fans can update it themselves. Harmy’s Despecialized Edition still exists, & 4K77, 4K80 & 4K83 are still prevalent.

It really shouldn’t have been left to the fans to do this, and as others have pointed out, not everyone knows about the availability of these simply brilliant fan projects (and others), which originated from here and like-minded sister sites. Not everyone has the know-how to acquire them either, and it would be better to have the option to simply buy and experience any and all the various releases bought on a store shelf, online store, or on Disney+:

https://www.wired.com/story/put-original-star-wars-on-disney-plus
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2020/08/21/what-we-want
#ReleaseTheOriginalTrilogy | OriginalTrilogy.com’s enduring goal | How you can help

be respectful

Sure. That stood out in your post.

It is a pity that so many people have not been respectful at all over the years, usually people having a problem with the Original Trilogy fans, with fans highlighting George’s disingenuous claims (or lies as some put it), his re-writing of the official history, and also with this very site and its members:

The ‘Other websites / communities supposed issues with the OT•com, the Original Trilogy, or the unaltered theatrical cuts’ section of An Index Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion highlights a lot of that, including these posts, here & here, and here, and are also alluded to in the About, Help and Welcome to the OT.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within threads.

I guess you probably knew that before your 1st thread of “Special Editions - Improvement to Film or Changing History?”, and asking for people here to “be respectful”, with an inference that somehow the people on here are not “respectful”?

But of course maybe I am overthinking it, will give you the benefit of the doubt, and look forward to more of your posts.

I am curious about one thing…… If there were a version of the original Star Wars trilogy that lets you change certain things & remove others, what would you change.

If it were up to me, I’d leave Episode IV as it, besides updating the Aurebesh text, the Han Stormtrooper thing, the 2004 Krayt Dragon call, the hall on the detention center. The rest I’ll leave it as is.

Episode V is perfect, with the only change I’ll bring is the new Emperor scene, updating Cloud City & Boba Fett’s voice. The rest of the film is fine as it is.

Episode VI I’d leave it as is, but I would add the Ewok Celebration, Oola in the Rancor pit, the Sarlaac design, & probably Hayden but age him up in his 40s.

These are things I’m thinking at the top of my mind. Feel free to agree to disagree. Let me know what you think, be respectful & May the force be with you!

There are some really cool, fun and informative conversations on many scenes in the Special Editions (mistakes, unfixed errors, which SE alterations are good/not, ideas for changes listed up in the:

An Index & Help Thread for Theatrical Cuts vs. Subsequent Releases

and the Fan Edits section on here has many differing options for not only the Original Trilogy, but for all of Star Wars.
 

There are also some really cool and informative threads and other info like these:

An OriginalTrilogy.com Timeline | a history of the site | the why & how it came to be…
Some useful OT.com threads re the suppression of the theatrical Original Trilogy films
The 'Naysayer Guide’ by people who DON’T want an unaltered theatrical release of the Original Trilogy
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/ & https://x.com/StarWarsVisComp
https://savestarwars.com/ & http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/index.html

https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2021/02/27/the-lost-art-of-star-wars
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/2019/11/26/list-of-academy-awards-for-the-original-trilogy

Arc 170 said:

Hello,

I am fairly new to these forums, I have been trying for weeks to get a copy of this gorgeous looking project but for the life of me, I cannot find how to download Project 4K80, does anyone have a download link or instructions of some kind? I’m lost.

Hello. If you read through the opening post of this thread you’ll find instructions in there (or in the 4K77 thread, and 4K83 thread on here). Basically, you register to join the forums at https://forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com (using the code provided in the opening post on here), and all the information you’ll need to acquire the project is on there.

They’re also available on places like MySpleen, other torrent sites (public and private), and probably on usenet too. I’m guessing links are probably some links to it somewhere out there on reddit? But by far the best place to acquire them is from the https://forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com

For other projects on here, this is particular useful:-

‘How do I do this?’ on the OriginalTrilogy.com; some info & answers + member FAQs in General Assistance.

Especially this post:-

I have found a Fan Edit / Preservation Project I am interested in - but I don’t know how to get / acquire / download it?

^ Information in that post most also appears in About, Help, Welcome to the OriginalTrilogy.com | Introduce yourself in here | Useful info within, and the 4 main “Index & Help” threads pinned at the top of each of the ‘Fan Project’ forums; here, here, here, and here. And probably in other places around the OT forum too.

Although shouldn’t this thread title now be changed from “a WIP” to “Released”?

This episode has me more engaged and intrigued in the series. I wonder if we’ll see flashbacks from another POV, or Rashomon, to flesh out and complete the story of what happened on Brendok. And explain how Mae’s quick turn to wanting to kill here sister, the fire spreading so quickly, the unburnt bodies of the witches coven still grouped together, and more.

The manner in which the Jedi taking children was interestingly portrayed here too, and am looking forward to seeing hopefully be explored more as the series progresses.

Also enjoy reading all the posts on the series in here, especially the three posts above this one. And people given the series a go with an open mind, and actually watch the series itself, the story and characters, before rushing to any pre-conceived judgments and proclamations.

I’m certainly looking forward to next week’s episode, and likely the rest of the series.
 

‘The Acolyte’ Draws Biggest Series Premiere on Disney+ This Year - from The Walt Disney Co. site

The whole Archive looks very professional, I did a double take when looking at the YouTube playlists and videos, it looked more impressively laid out than the official Star Wars channel. Nice work Pineapples.

Bewy said:

Hey, here’s a video from a guy who makes very interesting videos about how CG was done in movies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N5SpsD71FI

It’s in French but there are English subs.

I really like what he does, he always interviews people involved in creating the effects he’s talking about! And there’s also a video about the Special Edition trilogy on his channel (in which he might talk about the CG trench effect) :3

I loved that interview, it was go cool to hear from William Reeves, one of the guys who worked on the actual VFX for those shots, explain how they all came about.

Also the part of the interview with Terrence Masson, part of Lucasfilm’s VFX department who worked on the 1997 Special Edition, as well as TPM, say about the SE alterations:

“There comes a time where you just have to stop and let it exist as it exists. Us hardcore Star Wars fans were horrified at George asking… you know, making Greedo shoot first, putting that ring around the Death Star explosion, it was just… you know… again I understand… kind of, but… we were y’know… ‘no, please don’t do that’ (laughs)”.

 
And also a mention for Harmy’s Despecialized Editions!

The whole Gorkab YouTube channel does appear to have some very cool videos and some great looking interviews with many people in the industry. I’ll bookmark that. Thanks Bewy!
 

^ It still looks stunning over 40 years later.

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Caston posted the following in the New Lucas interview 2: ‘Insists Unaltered Versions Of The OT Will Never Be Released’ thread, talking about George’s comments during the media rounds and interviews at Cannes, but I think it also warrants a place in here.
 

Caston said:

The following abridged screenshot (edited for length) is from Lucasfilm department director Bill Kimberlin’s excellent 2018 book - Inside The Star Wars Empire, from ‘The Distraction’ chapter, starting on Page 194.

It covers George Lucas refusing the option to have a duplicate negative of the original cuts to be made. Something that “could be easily done”. Instead George simply said “This is the original version” (meaning the 1997 SE cut was now “the original version”):
 

 
So when George used to tell everyone all the many excuses in the past as to why he couldn’t preserve or restore the original cuts, it was all rubbish. For someone who even today goes on record about the importance of preserving film history, George actively suppressed the preservation and archiving of his own film, as well as the films of other directors in the Original Trilogy.
 

Lucas is also on record as specifically wanting the original cuts of the OT films to no longer exist:

George Lucas: “There will only be one. And it won’t be what I would call the ‘rough cut’, it’ll be the 'final cut.’”

^ a screenshot from “How the Grinch Stole Star Wars” - an article from the Save Star Wars website.

(from Category No. 17 of the ‘George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…’ thread)

 
 

The entire “Inside The Star Wars Empire” book is a really good enjoyable read and would recommend anyone to go and buy it.

^ This section in Caston’s post from Bill Kimberlin’s book is particularly damning:

When I first saw that posted on here I was speechless, but not sadly that surprised.

JadedSkywalker said:

They have ruined enjoyment of things almost like they are deliberately trying to sabotage SW, and I mean fans not Kathy Kennedy. Do I like the Disney trilogy no, I did like Ahsoka and Obi-Wan. I like Andor and I like Mandalorian. Sure, quality varies. The only one I didn’t like is Book of Boba Fett. I haven’t seen Acolyte yet, I will admit I haven’t read any of the High Republic books but not because of their alleged wokeness, just because I like the old EU lore and its universe of characters more. I have read a comic book from IDW but not the longform novels, I have had Disney SW fans recommend them to me which I really don’t mind they can like what they like and they aren’t shills.

This isn’t a religion there aren’t true fans, if you are a fan of SW you are a fan regardless of who produced it.

Lucas isn’t a god he doesn’t need defending, the OT isn’t the bible. The prequel isn’t holy scripture.

I agree with all of that. I would guess you may enjoy certain aspects of The High Republic publishing project, such as the Jedi being more like the Jedi many of us imagined before the prequels (that old pre-pre-PT era lore that if often forgotten these days).

Some have relationships, attachments, different coloured lightsabers and variants of them, and differing uniforms than the Tatooine robes. The Jedi aren’t as centralized as we see them in the PT era (there are many Jedi outposts, and each have their own approach or thing going on), nor are they as dogmatic at PT Jedi (some are, though it is not “the norm”). I’m not saying it is perfect or exactly like that pre-PT era lore or anything, and there are issues, but could be something a fan of the older EU may enjoy?
 

Regardless, I’m looking forward to see more of The Acolyte.

I prefer the pre-Prequel Trilogy era lore we all had in the many years before it was altered by Lucas for the Prequel films and since. Obviously younger fans or people who grew up or love the Prequels and the lore since would disagree, and that is fair enough.

A shame we never saw a “spin off” continuation or alternative timeline run or series of that early often forgotten lore. Is kind of there in The High Republic, with the Jedi in THR being more like the Jedi of that pre-PT era, which is a big plus for much this publishing project and now The Acolyte series.

Edit: double post.

Not many that I can recall. They may have announced more, but there has been so many cancelled games or overdue games I’ve kind of lost interest or belief in any ever making it to a release. A pleasant surprise if they ever are released.
 

ScreenRant says the game is available via emulation on the PC, maybe someone will work to take out any of the paid content?: https://screenrant.com/star-wars-hunters-platforms-differences-switch-android-ios/

Kotaku says it is a fun pick-up-and-play type game: https://kotaku.com/star-wars-hunters-review-is-it-good-switch-ps5-xbox-pc-1851521852

This has some “VIP arena pass” info: www.charlieintel.com/games/star-wars-hunters-arena-pass-rewards-price-more-327895/
 

Lucasfilm released a free official soundtrack for the game here: https://open.spotify.com/album/5uGX8I125qTzvzCMhuu5VB

Channel72 said:

[snip]

Cool post, Channel72. I always enjoy reading your stuff on here (even on the rare occasion I disagree). ACBagel, henzINNIT and StarkillerAG posts too, though nearly everyone here is cool and adds something to the discussions.

‘The Acolyte’ Blasts Onto Disney+ With 4.8M Views In First Day Of Streaming - a Deadline article
 

'The Acolyte is off to a promising start on Disney+.

The new Star Wars series launched on June 4 with two episodes, generating 4.8M views in its first day on the streamer. That makes it the biggest series premiere on Disney+ this year.

Disney+ doesn’t generally release viewership data for series after just one day of streaming. In August, the streamer said that Ahsoka drew 14M views in its first 5 days. As of now, The Acolyte is on track to zoom right past that benchmark, but it’ll need to sustain similar viewership over the weekend in order to do so.

The streamer can be a bit inconsistent with its viewership data, generally. When Percy Jackson and the Olympians debuted in December, Disney+ announced that series’ six-day viewership tally. However, releasing the viewership for one single day of viewing does indicate that Disney+ feels quite confident in The Acolyte‘s ability to keep performing well.’

That is pleasing to read. The review bombing is really sad to see, especially the review bombing before the series was even aired. Toxic grifters got to make some $$$ and keep the algorithm and their subscribers engaged and happy, I guess? Sure, reasoned criticisms, or the show not appealing to you is cool, but it is probably worth noting that many people who are knocking the show for not holding with their own politics, beliefs or views aren’t actually talking much about the show itself, if at all. It is “Disney this”, “Disney that”, or the usual key buzzwords often used by that relatively small, yet vocal, band of fandom. Pretty much the same stuff we’ve all often heard and seen before. And not much about what is happening on the screen in the show.

On here, so far most of the reviews are generally positive. Nearly everyone who has seen it and commented thinks it is around the “decent” or “good” categories overall? That the show has potential, and are looking forward to the next episodes, albeit with some issues raised.

There’s a few threads on the subject, here:-

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/What-was-done-for-the-1995-THX-mastering/id/10303
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/What-was-changed-for-1995-THX-version/id/79592
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/1992-vs-1995-video-releases/id/4612
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-screening-with-Q-and-A-with-Lucas-tonight/id/7898

and probably more to be found if you go through the Index thread in here, the ‘Home Releases’ section in the OT Index, and also the SW Preservation Index.

Maybe some more information or links here?:-

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-OOT-The-changes-to-the-OT-films-general-OOT-1977-1996-discussion-thread/id/80029

Do you mean THX? A standardisation of image and sound quality that was needed for many theaters who weren’t showcasing movies in a good quality in the 70s and 80s? If so, that started around the time of Return Of The Jedi, although it wasn’t until around the mid 90s where the smaller theaters, independents, or those located outside the major cities installed or subscribed it? Probably due to the installation costs involved, and annual charges like technicians showing up once or twice a year to check and approve the theaters were still adhering to the specifications?
 

There’s a little more on this, here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/THX
https://www.lucasfilm.com/news/lucasfilm-originals-thx/
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Info-Wanted-Did-the-THX-logo-accompany-Return-of-the-Jedi-in-theaters/id/47301
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/15a6hes/whatever_happened_to_thx_certs/ (see VisibleEvidence’s post)

The reddit post above has some of old tricks some theaters used do to save money, and not show films in their best light.

But there’s probably more on THX etc in the Star Wars Preservation forum on here? I hadn’t heard of there being specific requirements for TPM, but could have been (other than the “block booking” aspect for TPM by Lucasfilm mentioned in your linked article). I got nothing else.

If you find anything please post it up in here, it’d be interesting to read up on.

I liked the opening title card, a mix of familiar fonts from previous crawls.

The Acolyte definitely benefits from being a fresh start for the creators and the audience alike. No homework required. No needless fan service added to the mix, and although there are nods to the publishing side The High Republic they are so subtle they likely wouldn’t be noticeable to anyone who hasn’t read the books and comics yet. Which is what good fan service should be, not the key jangling kind we often get under Filoni.

It does also help that not all the Jedi are devout dorks who shy away from emotional attachment. And so far, there are no logic defying plot issues and handwaving away, that we saw too often saw in Ahsoka, BoBF, Kenobi and late Mandalorian. It appears the Jedi as a concept and an order will be scrutinized here, with anxiety in regarding the perception of the Jedi Order to governing bodies and the public by Vernestra being something I’m looking forward to see more of as the story progresses.

The two main leads are great so far, and like others have said some good performances from the supporting cast too. Direction and editing is tight, loving the look of the show and the choreography of action scenes. Sets look gorgeous. The story is compelling and has grown on me already after only two episodes. A solid and entertaining setup, with much mystery to explore.
 

Some likes: the yellow lightsabers, Jedi having attachments, behaving more like some of us older fans may have envisioned the Jedi to be before the Prequels retconned all that. Jedi outposts on different planets. Seeing a Jedi Wookiee onscreen. Manny Jacinto’s role and hoping to see more of that. Being actively engaged with a story and wanting to see how it plays out.

More than 3 years later and this game is now finally released! Sadly getting many microtransaction vibes from this.
 

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-hunters-is-here

official launch trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s4qcWH5IdE

Initial reviews from people who’ve seen the first two episodes in theaters appear positive. Early media reviews too. Something fresh and different. I hope so, although we’ll find out for ourselves soon enough.

RT scored it 86%: https://x.com/RottenTomatoes/status/1798030129748492798
RT’s average audience score (before audiences have seen it), at 48%: https://x.com/JacobsQuest/status/1798059472872718593

June 5 Edit: This time around RT have since wiped the audience score, so only people who could have seen actually it will have their vote counted? Although now it has been released I guess some people will return there to review bomb it without having still seen it.

 
I imagine all those involved in the early Project Luminous team are going to be proud to see the first High Republic project on TV soon.

Mocata said:

I would have said someone like Sam Niell would be a good fit for Sebastian Shaw in the Clone Wars. But depicting the earlier days of Obi-wan having to train Anakin is tougher, unless they started a prequel trilogy like 1986. Obi-wan would have to be someone like Jared Harris if they did it in the late 90s.

Sam Neill would be a superb fit. That “duality” quality he brings to that certain type of role, like in The Omen, would be interesting to see onscreen as Anakin.

Jared Harris, the actor from The Expanse and that Beatles 2-man special? I like that. Someone like him or Branagh as Kenobi in a 90s PT for sure. Heath Ledger is a name bandied about online as a possibility as Anakin, he’d be a good fit for the role and counterpoint to a Branagh/Harris Kenobi.

Anakin: “I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead, every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children, too. They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I HATE THEM!”

Padme: “To be angry is to be human”.

Obi Wan Kenobi: “I have seen a security Hologram of him killing Younglings.”

Padme: “To be angry is to be human”. “No. Not Anakin. He couldn’t!”

Caston said:

From the New Lucas interview - the originals “look terrible” thread, by digitalfreaknyc:

Haarspalter said:

The complete Cannes interview (with George Lucas):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHXLsHOdPiw

Fast forward to timecode 53:08 … the interviewer asks Lucas a question from a fan, if he will release the original versions in the future. Lucas drops the “it looks terrible” quote a few seconds later.

Thanks Haarspalter.

I think the whole “Special Edition” section is worth viewing. It is only 5 minutes long, starting at 50m 42s into the video, and there are also chapters timestamped in the video description.
 

The part where George talks about the film belonging to the director and he “should have the right to have the movie the way he wants it” (but makes no mention of Kershner or Marquand directing the other two OT films, nor him making changes to their films), and George then talks about Michelangelo, starts at 55m 23s.

I watched the whole 5 minute segment. George really is full of it. Some truly embarrassing claims.

George fancies himself in the realms of Michelangelo?! 😄
 

I did laugh at this in the SWU twitter thread comments

 
Who not just release all the main different releases of all the Star Wars movies?

It is only George’s ego that will be bruised when he finds out many fans will prefer the original theatrical cuts.

Or simply want to watch whatever old Special Edition version that was released to them at the time, and they grew up with.

MrGrayson said:

I know that I’m a little late on this (I’m a newbie) but the '97 versions were released on VCD.

I remember them being quite popular and being import option on many of the independent VHS/DVD online stores which was kind of exciting at the time. I was going to buy a set in the early 2000s, but when I saw a friend’s copy the image quality was awful and steered me clear. The box set itself did look kind of cool.

The Original Trilogy on VCD (Video Compact Disc) - albeit the 1997 Special Edition

Channel72 said:

We can spend all day analyzing Lucas quotes from the last 40 years, but we can’t avoid the obvious fact that significant parts of The Phantom Menace are just obviously tonally different than the OT. Specifically, TPM relies heavily on slapstick humor for comedy relief. Whereas, comedy in the OT was derived mostly through character interactions and dialogue, like Han Solo bickering with C3PO or Leia, C3PO bickering with R2, etc.

To be clear, I’m not saying the OT had zero slapstick comedy (examples of OT slapstick include C3PO kicking R2, the Sarlacc burping, Ewok antics in ROTJ, etc.), just that it had way less than the Prequels, to the extent that we can accurately describe OT comedy as mostly defined by character interactions and dialogue. In contrast, TPM had very little dialogue-based comedy (a few one-liners from Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan), but heavily featured slapstick Jar Jar antics, like stepping in Bantha shit, dropping things, getting electrocuted, basically the entire Gungan battle at the end, etc.

Slapstick comedy is generally considered more juvenile, and is often one of the main forms of comedy in children’s movies because children universally understand physical comedy. That’s why Phantom Menace seems more explicitly designed for children than the OT. So regardless of anything Lucas says, the fact is that Phantom Menace objectively relies way more on slapstick comedy than the OT does, making it a lot closer tonally to movies that everyone agrees are made for children (like Disney/Pixar cartoons).

There’s a scene in Watto’s shop where Jar Jar performs slapstick antics in the background (juggling, dropping things, getting kicked by a droid) for a good portion of the scene, and of course the ending Gungan battle heavily features Jar Jar slapstick. There’s simply nothing in the OT comparable to those Jar Jar scenes. At most you have an Ewok accidentally hitting himself in the face with a sling - a brief joke lasting about a second. At the same time, Phantom Menace has much less character-driven humor than the OT. Obi-Wan arguably has a few funny lines (“we picked up another pathetic lifeform”, etc.), but in general the characters in TPM behave so formally that character-driven humor is very rare.

OT humor was similar to the humor of Indiana Jones: mostly character-driven with a few instances of slapstick. And both featured some dark material. Also, while the MPAA rating system is often an inconsistent mess, in general PG rated movies (like Star Wars and Indiana Jones) have traditionally been considered to be designed for older kids, adolescents and adults, whereas movies made explicitly for 10 year olds and younger are more commonly rated G. So Lucas can claim Star Wars was always for children, but there’s a clear, qualitative tonal difference (especially in terms of humor) between movies like the OT and G-rated children’s movies (e.g. Disney/Pixar cartoons).

Phantom Menace is rated PG, but weirdly relies heavily on slapstick humor more often associated with G-rated children’s movies. This problem is compounded by the cartoonish voice and appearance of Jar Jar and the fact that TPM is the first Star Wars movie to feature a child actor main character. Not that children can’t star in more mature, adult-oriented films (just ask co-star Natalie Portman), but when they do they usually don’t go around acting like an exuberant “Leave it to Beaver” character half the time. If 10-year-old Anakin acted more like Indiana Jones’ side-kick Shortround or even a member of The Goonies, perhaps I would bitch slightly less.

Finally, I also question the historical accuracy of Lucas’ claim that fans complained about C3PO to anywhere near the same extent that they complained about Jar Jar. At least, those scenes in A New Hope heavily featuring C3PO certainly didn’t prevent Star Wars from becoming an unprecedented cultural phenomenon that inspired millions of people to wait in line to see the movie for a 20th time in 1977. Plus, C3PO functions as comic relief much differently than Jar Jar. Again, most jokes in the OT involving C3PO rely on dialogue, not slapstick, despite the occasional instance where C3PO kicks R2 or has his head on backwards or whatever.

Those are some excellent points, and also very well made.

Fan_edit_fan said:

Lucas is back at it…blaming fans for any of his weaknesses in writing or directing. ???

He still can’t keep his stories straight, either.

• George Lucas on TPM: “It is a kids’ movie. It’s always been a kids’ movie.”

• Also George Lucas on why he made the Prequels, in 2019: “I decided that it would be important to finish it off and do the backstory [the Prequels] because things that I thought would be self-evident about the story, the audience didn’t get. Over the 10 years after Return of the Jedi, I realized people misunderstood a lot – such as where Anakin came from. So it was a way of finishing the whole thing off.”

So George says he made the Prequels as the Original Trilogy “audience didn’t get” things in the years after ROTJ was released, but then made it for kids, many of which weren’t even born at the time in the 10 years after ROTJ? Sounds right!

• Even George admits himself. in 2005, that he wasn’t aware that the six Star Wars “form the biography of Vader” “until 1998”.
 

• Also:

Question: You’ve often said that Star Wars movies are primarily meant for children, but The Phantom Menace was always going to be a film that was going to be significant for twenty/thirtysomethings. How did you address this problem?

George Lucas: “Basically I didn’t. I kept it as it was originally intended. You can’t play too much to the marketplace. It’s the same thing with the fans. The fans’ expectations had gotten way high and they wanted a film that was going to change their lives and be the Second Coming. You know, I can’t do that, it’s just a movie. And I can’t say, now I gotta market it to a whole different audience.”

Yet Lucas hyped, marketed and promoted TPM and the coming Prequels like no other franchise before, for that older audience. Only when there was criticism of TPM, did the “It is a kids’ movie. It’s always been a kids’ movie” attempt of a poor excuse occur.

This is despite George also previously stating things like Star Wars “is for forever - for all generations” in promotional spiel:

 
It appears George really does not take or accept any kind of valid or reasoned criticism well at all.

And quite a stretch to full on straw-clutching with George trying to equate a minority of fans’ dislike of Threepio in the OT, to Jar Jar in the PT. Maybe George forgets that some kids and youngsters also didn’t like Jar Jar, TPM, and the PT. That adults can also critique a film aimed “for kids”, and it doesn’t invalidate that criticism because of that.

Happy Real Star Wars Day!